I'm on a bit of a roll with these radio thoughts, so may as well make the most of it.
(And I have still been reading those comments, including today one from Rob about 'allowing yourself to be drawn limitlessly into a fuller and more wholesome approach to yourself and others' through 'the ethics of Jesus'. Nice.)
So, to that radio thought, with Jackson Five's 'Want you back' as music bed:
Someone showed up recently who’d been missing for months... Think floppy hair, flash ties, endless line of celebrity guests...? That’s right: Mr Jonathan Woss. Like him or loathe him, he creates a buzz doesn’t he? And let’s be honest, Friday night telly WAS starting to get a bit dull.
And then out of the blue, he actually said sorry. Three months earlier he’d made a prank phone call that offended half the country. Now here he was, welcomed back with cheers and applause, just by eating a bit of humble pie. I nearly dropped my horlicks. (And my pie.)
Now let’s face it, Mr Ross isn’t the first person ever to mess up. (I nearly strangled the cat yesterday, before I’d even got out of bed). It made me think though, what ELSE do I do that upsets people? And more to the point, GOD? Quite a lot actually. Which makes me rather glad there’s some good news too. That if I say sorry and mean it, then I get a warm welcome back. From the Lord God Almighty no less. Wow. It’s enough to make me want to go on TV and tell everyone about it.
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21 comments:
I nearly strangled the cat yesterday, before I’d even got out of bed
That could have sounded so bad :-) Anyway, attitudes to strangling cats is another example of the relativity of morals.
If I offend god, then maybe he would be better off interfering in an other planet that doesn't offend him.
How can you go about life wondering how much you have upset a being that you have no real evidence actually exists?
I dont call that healthy. When you put the feelings of this imaginary being over the feelings of real people, whose hurt you can actually see when you cause it, seems a very bad way to live.
Have you ever seen god cry? I'll bet you have seen people cry. Actually , come to think of it, if you saw someone losing some blood from an artery, you would probably try and help - wouldn't you? What would god do? That's right, nothing! Compare what you would do with what he could do, and your effort requires more sacrifice and determination. Remind me, what is so great about god again? (assuming she exists for the sake of arguement) :-)
'allowing yourself to be drawn limitlessly into a fuller and more wholesome approach to yourself and others' through 'the ethics of Jesus'.
Change Jesus to Allah and you have quoted a couple of muslims I know (and Amir Khan).
Incidentally, Ross didn't exactly last long before screwing up again. I would argue that in some cases it s better to not welcome the offender back back.
You see, unconditional forgiveness just leaves you open to being taken advantage of - again - and again - and again.
Remember, you god wont forgive apostates and blasphemers against the holy spirit, so why should you always be expected to forgive? God frequently breaks his own rules in the bible.
Change Jesus to Allah and you have quoted a couple of muslims I know...
Excellent I wouldn't want to be out on a limb with that. There is the old arguments that the areas where religions overlap represents the core of our understanding of god - the more the merrier really.
I've looked at forgiveness in a few different ways over the last few years - firstly somatically in my study with oriental bodywork - the body has an ability to store and to release tension - even as the mind has the ability to release the fixatations of its mental processes.
However there is one key element in Zen that I think develops the christian idea of forgiveness in a very practical way. Our experience of the world is cluttered perceptually with all of our previous experiences and abstractions. By the time we are adults, when we look on the world we see things that we remember that we have seen before. We begin to see labels and not the unamed reality which appears constantly before us. You cannot step in the same river twice - as heraclitus claimed.
There is a sense in Zen of forgiving the world of our interpretation of it - of allowing it to return to simply to an unamned and uninterpreted state. A separation of the moment from all previous moments. In not judging the world - in simply indwelling it without concepts - in allowing it to be unattributed - I think we are doing something which reflects and or develops jesus' ideas of forgiveness.
Can we forgive the world. Can we release each thing we percieve from all the assosciations we have pinned upon it - can we release each person we see from our preformed judgements which threaten to cloud our experience of them - becasue as we do we unshackle ourselves from the expectations we have placed upon ourselves - and we approach the simple divine awareness of the world.
I think it was thomas merton who claimed there had to be something of zen in any mature spiritual tradition - and i would say something of islam as well....
billy,
did you watch the shoot out in the league cup final - even beats the aberdeen celtic cup final - which I seem to remember watching on ceefax - which was a bizarre experience.
I listened to this one . Boruc scored a penalty. Seem to remember Chris Woods taking a penalty in a european game in the late 80's - dont think he scored but it was a nice thought....
Hi Bruce,
That if I say sorry and mean it, then I get a warm welcome back. From the Lord God Almighty no less.
You know I might have a bit of a problem with this logic (if I apply it consistently)
So, let’s say a have a good man, never hurt a fly and all that – does a lot of work for charity, invents a cure for a previously deadly disease and hence saves the suffering of millions – BUT is an atheist.
God would not welcome this man (back or otherwise), but will let him rot in Hell...
Yet, IF a mass murdering rapist torturing sadist of a man who has done nothing but caused suffering to whoever they met – on their death bed - said “Sorry, LORD – I made a mistake, I am truly sorry, I mean it”
God would give this sick man a warm welcome back – open arms and a ticket to Heaven?
Makes no sense when I think about it... but it does to you? Or are you just not applying your logic consistently? Now there is my real problem with your logic.
Lee
Seem to remember Chris Woods taking a penalty in a european game in the late 80's
Ah, Chris Woods... when he was on his last legs, he played for my team... graveyard for old footballers we where then
Lee
Billy God frequently breaks his own rules in the bible.
Well, you cannot expect God to follow His own rules now can we :-)
There is the old arguments that the areas where religions overlap represents the core of our understanding of god - the more the merrier really.
Well, there is an argument that all religions are spin offs of hinduism. Although jn 14 says that jesus is the only way to god.
To be honest, I think we have a better chance against celtic. I was beginning to wonder if anyone would miss - was it 24 penalties?
So, let’s say a have a good man, never hurt a fly and all that – does a lot of work for charity, invents a cure for a previously deadly disease and hence saves the suffering of millions
Ah but Lee, he is standing in the way of god. God made the nasty organ dissolving, prolapse inducing insanity rendering disease for a purpose. Spectacle wearers are also defying god too :-)
However, ho could anyone ask forgiveness if god does not show he exists?
I think Chris Woods still holds the world record for not conceeding a goal. Van der sar must be closing in though
Fun to see how a spot of banter about a rogue TV presenter can generate all this discussion. Back soon I hope.
I think Chris Woods still holds the world record for not conceeding a goal.
That certainly was not while playing for Burnley
However, how could anyone ask forgiveness if god does not show he exists?
Why not start at Zeus, and work your why backwards until you find the right one?
"I'm sorry Zeus"
... waits... nothing happens
"I'm sorry Woden"
... waits... still nothing happens
Makes are much sense to me.
That certainly was not while playing for Burnley
Nope, it was at Rangers, 1196 minutes, set over 14 games between November 1986 and January 1987.
If I remember correctly, he conceded about 30 mins after breaking the record (against some diddy team (other than celtic))
Why not start at Zeus, and work your why backwards until you find the right one?
Yep, all the philosophical arguments work for these gods too. That just leaves christians with personal experience (not an argument at all) of the bible - historically inaccurate, full of made up prophecy, doctrinally inconsistent and morally ...... well, quite disgusting in the OT and ithe introduction of hell in the NT (not very loving - therefore inconsistent) as justification of their specific beliefs (assuming they can agree amongst themselves)
jesus is the only way to god...
Exactly billy but what is jesus ?
I didnt see the semi final - only listened to it on the radio but 70million turnover plays 5 million turnover - and the outcome hangs on a hoofed penalty - celtic should be buying levien not flood
Exactly billy but what is jesus ?
Something that divides christians. However, I think you will have a less tangeble view than the one that potrays him as a being that walked the earth and dies to appease himself.
less tangeble view than the one that potrays him as a being that walked the earth and dies to appease himself
I could hardly call that tangeble - are you being sarcastic....
calling that tangible is like calling robert fleck attractive - I would hope my view of what jesus is was a little more like john fleck - he almost looks human...
I could hardly call that tangeble - are you being sarcastic....
Why is that untangeble.
Didn't like giving the penalty to Fleck yesterday - its the kind of thing you do when you are 3 up. You think he's bad, you should see his uncle. Still, I'm sure god has a purpose for letting someone with a face that scares badied to roam the earth without a bag on his head :-)
well if you can call a group of disassociated ,second hand and self referential concepts tangible then fair play - to me they are tangible in the way a compost heap is - or maybe a nice little bit of silage....
Flecks nephew is nothing on the old uncle - do you know if its his brothers kid - or his sisters - the thought of fleck having a sister is just wrong - we would have to drop the tag "fairer sex"
Yeah Robert would waltz into world ugly XI - for a nation of ugly footballers I would place him as one of our finest - are there any green grapes who stand out as particularly offensive to your good self.
Sometimes you need to see a famous person in the flesh to really grasp their personal aura - I once saw roy "the bear " aitken outside the old love street - my sense of horror was not disapointed.....
Still dont see what you see untangeble about that.
There was a sign in Aberdeen that said "keep Aberdeen tidy". Someone wrote under it "don't buy Davie Dodds"
Man U's Edwin Van Der Sar broke Woods' record at the weekend, although I personally would give Vidic a lot of the credit.
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