Last night I watched a fascinating programme on BBC2 about religion, psychology and mental health, 'Am I normal?' presented by psychologist Dr Tanya Byron. Atheist readers would have found a friend here; I hope no-one would mind me saying she's quite a looker as well. Early on she spoke to a street evangelist who'd received an ASBO; and a nun. She suggested, quite plausibly I thought, that the reason for the public's broadly contrasting responses to the two - suspicion and uncomfortableness towards the one, acceptance towards the other - had a lot to do with context; the street preacher was operating outside a recognised religious context, the nun within one (this bears on my own line of work, seeking to place spiritually oriented radio programming in the secular arena of commercial radio - but more on that another time).
Dr Byron seemed intrigued by the self-denying lifestyle of the nun of her own age she spoke to; a reminder to me of the power of testimony and experience, which has the potential to transcend intellectual barriers. 'Your willingness to put your life on the line like this communicates more eloquently than words or argument the possibility that 'there's something in this'' may have been a thought that at least flickered across her mind.
The faith healer Benny Hinn was also featured, and I have to say, the rally shown in India with vast enraptured audience, a wheelchair being carried off and one poor fellow's head being rocked up and down back and forth like a rag doll... created the decided impression of a showman, to put it cautiously. Right down to the white suit (and presumably, shoes). Less diplomatic terms, such as one beginning with 'char' and ending in 'tan' proffer themselves, but I'd be the la-st one to jump to conclusions. And I don't know the man and his ministry well enough to speak with any authority - so I'd be interested to hear from anyone with a different perspective.
But on the other hand... a thought to challenge atheists too. One of my biggest objections to viewpoints such as Dr Byron's is the insistence on reduction and seeing things through either just one or a very limited range of lenses. 'No scientific evidence for God or the power of prayer'. Prayer is not and was never meant to be a slot machine to convince atheists. If it's not considered - and in the last resort experienced - in a context of trust, relationship and personal transformation then it's always going to look odd from the sidelines.
Scripture and the message of Christ through a lens of faith can be compared, to posit two images in my mind of late, to a mountain range or a treasure chest - inviting exploration and enjoyment. I was struck the other day by the power of Christ's character to elicit fascination and faith; to cite just one example that's especially relevant in relation to atheist debate: his ability when questioned and attacked, simply to be silent. That self-control and composure frankly evinces a greatness of character more persuasive and compelling than any mere intellectual debate. But without a spark of trust releasing this kind of truth in its full flush of colour - acknowledging there's an elusiveness to 'faith' in atheist eyes that bears further reflection - I guess it's always going to look strange and nonsensical at best. And dare I say it, slightly monochrome?
But enough for today.
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6 comments:
Hi Bruce, it was "Am I normal". I had a few calls about then and missed it.
I am not sure that I would call a nun acceptable if she spouts a doctrine that spreads HIV.
The street evangelist - well, my experience of them is that they are closed to reason and speak with a self proclaimed authority and make far out claims - It is also forcing it on passers by. Would you allow the same time to a Nazi? (and no I am not saying christianity = nazism)
Benny Hinn. Went to see him once - (insert 4 lettered word of choice). My feeling (and that of many christians is that the guy is a money grabbing con man). I remember seeing people turn up in Oxygen tents full of false hope (they probably died a few weeks later). No one got out a wheel chair and some white kid claimed that he was cured of sickle cell anemea (an almost exclusivly black disease) Then there was some woman in a cast, who apparently had been in it for weeks and had so sensation. Low and behold she could feel again - call me cynical but..... I also noticed there was no writing on the cast and it looked rather clean. Then at the end he got the "holy spirit" to slay the choir - it looked wery like a small proportion were actively trying to pull others down.
Anyway, the slot machine analogy as usual is non biblical and an attempt to blame atheists for not believing - somewhat circular.
WHY DO YOU DISMISS REDUCTIONISM?
From previous discussions with you, it boils down to "I can't see how you can account for love/emotion/whatever".
It may be worth pointing out at this time that is not evidence for your alternative - and that you are not a neurobiologist. So if you want to rule out a physical basis to conciousness, we need some positive evidence - not aguments fron incredulity- this is more a challenge to you. Drugs can and do affect consciousness, perception, moral judgements and self control amongst other things - as do specific brain lesions and genetic polymorphisms. Therefore, why do you claim physics and chemistry are not enough?
Hi Bruce, it was "Am I normal". I had a few calls about then and missed it.
I am not sure that I would call a nun acceptable if she spouts a doctrine that spreads HIV.
The street evangelist - well, my experience of them is that they are closed to reason and speak with a self proclaimed authority and make far out claims - It is also forcing it on passers by. Would you allow the same time to a Nazi? (and no I am not saying christianity = nazism)
Benny Hinn. Went to see him once - (insert 4 lettered word of choice). My feeling (and that of many christians is that the guy is a money grabbing con man). I remember seeing people turn up in Oxygen tents full of false hope (they probably died a few weeks later). No one got out a wheel chair and some white kid claimed that he was cured of sickle cell anemea (an almost exclusivly black disease) Then there was some woman in a cast, who apparently had been in it for weeks and had so sensation. Low and behold she could feel again - call me cynical but..... I also noticed there was no writing on the cast and it looked rather clean. Then at the end he got the "holy spirit" to slay the choir - it looked wery like a small proportion were actively trying to pull others down.
Anyway, the slot machine analogy as usual is non biblical and an attempt to blame atheists for not believing - somewhat circular.
WHY DO YOU DISMISS REDUCTIONISM?
From previous discussions with you, it boils down to "I can't see how you can account for love/emotion/whatever".
It may be worth pointing out at this time that is not evidence for your alternative - and that you are not a neurobiologist. So if you want to rule out a physical basis to conciousness, we need some positive evidence - not aguments fron incredulity- this is more a challenge to you. Drugs can and do affect consciousness, perception, moral judgements and self control amongst other things - as do specific brain lesions and genetic polymorphisms. Therefore, why do you claim physics and chemistry are not enough?
You failed the do you read these posts test :-)
In fairness Billy, many St.Silas people (DM included) are perfectly ok with my experience, where drugs that treated mental illness did far more to restore my life than Christianity (which doesn't preclude that God was acting through medicine of course). But most of pscyhiatry/psychology is a value systema as much as a hard science (as Thomas Szasz said: "If you speak to God you're praying. If God speaks to you you're a schizophrenic"). Antipsychiatrist (Breggin et all) also point out the chicken and the egg problem: the fact that drugs effect the physical brain and so consciousness doesn't say much about the nature of consciousness itself.
I don't have much time for faith healing though. And most Christians I know accept the validity of things like antidepressants.
Hi Ryan,
which doesn't preclude that God was acting through medicine of course
My problem with that is that there is no evidence to back that up. It would also mean that god is denying the poorest treatment and that mankind has to make a technological advance before god intervenes.
It is a bit like those who claim the small pox vaccine was a gift from god. In the 20th century alone, small pox killed half a billion. So, where was god for them?
the fact that drugs effect the physical brain and so consciousness doesn't say much about the nature of consciousness itself.
It says it has a physical basis and that it can be physically manipulated
Hi Bruce - Bradford going well I trust. I saw the programme and thought it was very interesting. The poor woman's face as Benny Hinn manipulated that boys head though was quite awful!. Interesting experiment with the pastor speaking in tongues, where they discovered he wasn't accessing normal brain function to speak. Perhaps see you in Bradford at the end of the month?
Stay blessed!
Lorraine
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