This is superb: an intelligent atheist writer honestly expressing the unsettling effect on his worldview from witnessing real Christianity at work in people's lives in a context where it can be really seen to make a difference. I've read quite a lot of Matthew Parris before. An example of honest profound reflection that I can really respect. See what you think.
From The Times, December 27, 2008:
'As an atheist, I truly believe Africa needs God'
Missionaries, not aid money, are the solution to Africa's biggest problem - the crushing passivity of the people's mindset.
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Interesting read....
It can be argued that the conceptionless & tolerent mindset of modern secularism is nothing more than veiled platform for anarchy and exploitation.
The warm televisual belief in tolerance and the bleeding heart enthusiasm in the equal rites of all - are nothing more than the foundational values of contemporary capatalism.
Once upon a time in our imperial haze , we had protestant thrift underpining our national quest for the possession of wealth and power - now we have abstract nouns of "respect" and "equality" glazing our minds, as our legs are spread wide for the passing gratification of a faceless global market - numbers and dividends, indexes and digital keystrikes seduce us of our national body and factor away our diginity.
In the postmodern mileu : asophic empistemologys froth at the mouth of faust's cauldron - denying any knowledge -except the objective markers of wealth and science.
Art has become but a vehicle of pleasure - embalming before our eyes the corpse of Pasolini's Salo.
The individual is nothing more than a cosmic alien of chance - and truth is a ghost who never appears - only survives, in the unsettled undercurent of memories.
A collective conciousness of swine - driving us headlong into the wishful and watery abyss of a present. The present present which denies any possible past - and fears every possible future.
After all the future is bright. The future is a mobile phone company.
Sorry Bruce, but how is any of that intelligent? Is it because it says what you want to hear? It contains several examples of the no true scotsman fallacy and by his own admission, he has not been to malawi for many years. Now, let's look at the stamp of christianity on Africa - HIV, fear of hell, burning of "witch chlidren" wars and the lord's liberation army. This is nothing more than highly selective dribble! I'm not saying some good things may be done, but this is highly naive stuff. To paraquote Mrs Job, "Will you notice only the good things?" Of course, you will claim the bad stuff is not true christianity, but then you will say that ignoring certain biblical "difficulties" Stip away all the nonsens and you are faced with the question "what moral act can I only perform with faith?"
Hardly a definitive report!
I'm reminded of a Stephen weinberg quote : "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion".
I also know plenty of atheists who are working to solve the health problems of Africa - or does that not warrant a mention? Are they motivated by god?
Rob, are you just randomly sticking words together again? :-)
"what moral act can I only perform with faith?"
marital faithfullness would be quite difficult, and of course supporting newcastle united. They are the first two that spring to mind...
word glue ?
It can be argued that the conception ridden and intolerent mindset of modern secularism is nothing less than an self disclosing platform for social regulation and the remorseless redistribution of wealth.
The cold, lingering subcultural belief in elite understanding and the repressed but sculptured demand for a driving cultural ideogram - remain the enemies of contemporary capitalism
Tell me billy if you glue the opposite words and it makes sense - does that mean what you meant originally was more - or less accurate ? What happens if we take your writings and invert them ?
well done bruce - that is so intelligent - it challenges me so deeply. It rubbishes childish arguments against the very nature of christianity.I am so glad someone who has been to africa is actually saying this.Yes lets remember what christianity has done for africa.
why does the opposite of what you say sound like a believer and why does the opposite of what I say - says the same thing. Are athiesm and theism self revolving and mutually attractive concepts. Are you keeping the believers alive billy by your aguments - are you giving christianity something to focus on. Are you responsible for AIDS in africa ?
marital faithfullness would be quite difficult, and of course supporting newcastle united.
But seriously.....
It can be argued that the conception ridden and intolerent mindset of modern secularism is nothing less than an self disclosing platform for social regulation and the remorseless redistribution of wealth.
You could replace the word secularism with christianity - the land occupied by the vatican alone is worth over £3200 000 000.
Tell me billy if you glue the opposite words and it makes sense - does that mean what you meant originally was more - or less accurate ? What happens if we take your writings and invert them ?
It means it applies both ways. The good done by christianity does not make up for the evil. What my point was is that tou cant just look at one small(and in this case poorly argued) part that you happen to like and declare "Africa needs christianity". Africa needs many things, but none of them are the sole reserve of christianity. I though my point was obvious about the selective nature of the article - and Bruce's thinking.
Yes lets remember what christianity has done for africa.
Nah, but seriously.......Are you really claiming that christianity has only been good for Africa? Nigeria is a scary place. Oh, and I have been to Africa too - the muslims were doing fine, but they and the christians were persecuting the Hindus.
Are you responsible for AIDS in africa ?
What do you think? Cant remember ever telling people they will burn in hell if the use condoms. I dont remember lying that they come pre-infected with HIV. I dont remember lying about their effectiveness. Who said that again? Oh yeah, the christians!
Tell me, is the homophobia pandemic in Africa a good thing?
Like I say, you only focus on the bits you like. You ignore the bits that dont fit. Many christians even tell themselves that christians are not responsible for the bad things.
Christians should take an overall view - good and bad!
There is also the fallacious thinking that must be dealt with that assumes that if behaviour X is good, it must come from your god (not the muslim god or the great spirit or Horus or the 33 million hindu variants) but your god . If you think a good deed is evidence of god, you have a major intellectial hurdle to overcome.
I've just found out Matthew Parris is gay. I wonder if he thinks GAFCON is what Africa needs?
What do we say gay hating preachers getting involved in politics - good or bad?
I'm only pointing this out because the christians seem to have the rosey faith tinted glasses on. If some objectivity was involved - well, I guess there wouldn't even be an article.
I can acknowledge some christians can do good (but nothing anyone else couldn't do). Why do you guys have a problem acknowledging there is also another side to your religion?
Billy your view of christianity continues to be so objectified - so exclusive and barbarously framed - to me - really it's the theological equivalent of pornography. Although thats probably belittling pornography.
Now it seems you expect our " fairy god" to answer to a name like a pet dog - and to be captured and held accountable to any stray vagrant who chooses to abuse the traditions of jesus.
I suppose you will say that your strawman view is authentic biblical christianity and I have to believe that - but I don't - so in your mind I am inconsitent and not a christian - which makes me wonder why are you arguing with me.
Oy Gevalt! The Matthew Parris article that got posted to the St.Silas egroup a few years back ("no God would not approve of Gay Bishops") was bad enough. He's also a tory. His article in the Times last week, on why Tintin is gay, was quite amusing though.
P.S. Boyd goes to Lazio ? Any truth in this...
Hi Bruce,
Basically, what Billy said :-)
Can you list the good the Christians have done in/for Africa?
Now can you list the bad Christians have brought to Africa?
Now tell me what part of the good required the person to be a Christian.
Have I just brought this back to the Weinberg quote?
Lee
David Robertson posted a link to this on RD.net in his usual crowing manner.
Here's the article:
http://richarddawkins.net/article,3502,Matthew-Parris-As-an-atheist-
I-truly-believe-Africa-needs-
God,Times-Online
Rob, maybe you couldexplain your post more fully. It seems that you are responding to something that I dont recognise as having written.
Lazio say they are not interested in Boyd. I must say that the whole idea seemed bizarre. Anyway, I've learned to not pay any attention to rumours. It could just be his agen angling for a better deal
Lazio and Boyd - Sounded like papers selling a story. You can usually tell because their is no quote just a little side story to take the drift onto something else and make you forget where you started - in this case, Gasgoigne. If anyone said Fiorentina was interested nobody would listen - and the article would end so quick people would smell the rat...
Agents as you say. Willie Mckay it seems is still floating about Ibrox. His name is mud down here - certainly after souness "gifted" murray £8 for boumsoung.
What was I saying ? I'm going to pass on that one. Think I might I have said it before, anyway.
Nice new picture Jonathon....
google 2008 ? Thats a nice name. I meant me.
£8 million as well - not £8. Although with Mckay around that could have been all Murray actually saw of newcastles money !
Boumsong was exellent until we played him against his former club Auxerre and he just went to pieces after that. Looks like we sold him just in time.
He was expected to be the next Desailly or Lilian Thuram as well
I find thie Kaka business quite obscene at the moment
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