Saturday 14 May 2011
Love wins?
Jason Byrne, whirlwind Irish comedian on his radio 2 late night show last Saturday asked the audience if they were all atheists and there was a general ‘yes’ murmur - good sample of the liberal secular British populace there then! One said ‘I’m an agnostic’ and there was a collective intake of breath. Breaking rank!
Been reading Rob Bell’s latest book ‘Love Wins’. He’s arguing against the ‘believe the wrong things and you’ll end up in a fiery pit’ way of thinking, for a more expansive, generous view of God’s love, that persists whatever it takes, including beyond death, to draw humanity back to Godself (RB doesn‘t like the gender pronouns). The image of a parent who lets the child suffer enough of the consequences of his/her own rebellion to persuade a return to the source of happiness. He cites a Revelation reference that the gates of heaven are not shut but open, allowing people to come and go. This parallels our best human experience here and now - a readiness to forgive as soon as there‘s a sign of contrition in the guilty one. But I’d be interested to explore how such a view fits with the range of other biblical stories, images and teachings about what lies beyond death.
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11 comments:
Do you agree with him? Seems like a case of extreme cherry picking of the bible
Are you shocked that most of the audience were atheist?
What's the big deal with the agnostic guy? What's your point? It's not as if he was burned as a heretic, or stoned according to a barbaric out dated law.
What do you mean by 'allowing people to come and go' ? Why would anyone want to leave heaven once they're in?
Hannah, the very concept of christian heaven sounds like a tedious hell where you are constantly expected to praise a god that I would find unworthy of praise if he existed.
Hi Billy. It's difficult to respond as I don't know you or why you seem 'anti' heaven & belief in God; all I can say is that for me personally I owe God everything and my faith is central to my existence, and heaven is a wonderful place where believers are restored, transformed & in communion with God as we were intended to be (can't imagine anything worse than a lost eternity and permanent separation from God).
Hi Hannah,
my reasons are as listed. I only mentioned it in response to your question about why anyone would want to leave heaven.
I'm anti belief in God as I see no evidence for him. The "evidence" presented is flawed and the very concept of an omnipotent being is logically impossible. He would be unable to make square circles etc and then would be subject to logic and therefore omnipotent. If you claim he could, then he is not omnibenevolent as he could make a universe without suffering and still respect free will. I could go on, but don't think we will get anywhere.
Personally, I find the concept of there being no god quite fulfilling. There is enough in this life to keep me fascinated.
That should be "and therefore not omnipotent".
It's worth stressing that , although evangementalist zoomers demonise "liberals" for not believing in Hell, that there's a legitimate spectrum of opinion on the subject. How many contemporary evangelicals genuinely subscribe to the "permanent, conscious punishment" model of Hell that was the norm in antiquity? Part of the problem is fundamentalist evangelicals claiming to be the voice of "Orthodoxy", when they are no such thing (some stereotypical markers of contemporary evangelical churches are : persecuting poofs,tolerating nonsense like creationism and pentecostalism, and thinking that being rich and snobby is the same thing as being "normal". None of those things, to riot in understatement, are key points in the historical Christian Creeds)
tolerating nonsense like creationism
Strange you should mention that CB. I'm giving a public talk on evolution this saturday in the MitchelL at 3:15. It's bring your own fundie.
WATP
Should read Mitchell library. Blogger is obviously buggy today
thanks for replies, sorry for my slow response, need to update my email notification address, no time for much just now, but quite a good summary of Bell's position I read: 'if you don't die to self, then heaven will be hell'
'if you don't die to self, then heaven will be hell'
If you can't be yourself, what's the point?
Why do christian's hate themselves so much that they consider themselves unworthy?
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