I've been thinking I need to get a digital camera sometime soon so I can start adding some images to this blog; it's a bit dull with just text. Meanwhile I'll just have to try and come up with snappy titles...
We have a new vicar at Holy Trinity Idle, Robin Gamble, bit of a Bradford legend, and he took his first service today having been licensed on Monday. An engaging fellow, broad Yorkshire, sounds a little like Alan Bennett the playwright, funny because, though I don't know much about him personally, he's an unashamed evangelist and will probably help make the comfortable in the congregation uncomfortable, in contrast to AB's cosy cocoa and slippers image.
I just watched 'An Arabic Christmas Carol (Byzantine Hymn of the Nativity)', recommended by Rob. Haunting music and images, expressing the awesome Christian truth that the Power and Presence underpinning the cosmos humbled himself - or 'Godself' as I've seen it expressed sometimes as a way of addressing the gender problem... It leads me to ponder one point I've briefly expressed before but want to expand on a little: a feature of Christ's manner and behaviour that has tremendous attractive and persuasive power, contrasting sharply with ordinary human methods and approaches. It's the willingness to forgo answering back, defending himself against accusers. Able to do this because he felt utterly and ultimately secure in the love of his Father God - freeing him from any sense of needing to defend himself. His sense of perspective allowed him to do this: the knowledge that though he might look weak and foolish for the time being, in the long run it was the path of wisdom. It strikes me as part of what Rob expressed in his image of living fully as a fish in water - freedom to be... This ethic is one of the things which enthralls and persuades me of God's reality. Without God you have to defend yourself and what you say - now.
I do read and absorb comments from readers who disagree. Don't think I'm putting my fingers in my ears. But we're coming from very different places and I have to keep writing about what interests me - hopefully some of it will interest you...
On a lighter note, in the event last night of not being able to tune an old telly I was taking over to a friend's to watch the finale of The X Factor (I'm not going to try and defend THAT now either!), we ended up watching 'Charlie's Angels'. Lucy Liu flicking her hair in slo mo as in a shampoo ad near the start was just one of the memorable tongue in cheek moments.
But this post is going from the sublime to the ridiculous...
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42 comments:
What is the quip from the jesus and mo cartoons ? Faith is never having to say you are wrong ! If I am never worrying about being wrong and never insisting I am right , can I then begin to reflect the wholeness of god ?
I am sure St Paul said something about not judging himself. So if we are not judging others - according to jesus' words and not judging ourselves - according to paul - we are effectively not making judgements at all. I am simply empty trusting in god to reflect his wholeness in me.
Pleased you liked the arabic carol - I liked the quote from hosea with which it opened. "In that day I will answer the heavens and the heavens shall answer the earth. " There is something in the hymn which to me points to the unspeakable fullness of god. A fullness or theophany which is more than capable of looking after itself.
Amen. I'll need to check out those cartoons, I noticed them mentioned on Lee's blog I think.
I've been thinking I need to get a digital camera sometime soon so I can start adding some images to this blog;
You don't own a digital camera?
WOW
I'll need to check out those cartoons, I noticed them mentioned on Lee's blog I think.
I posted a couple of links to the good ones :-)
Some are hit and miss...
Would be nice if jesus and mo - could drop the agenda - and get both sides of the debate - for me they wear thin after a while - they are limited by the very thing which makes them funny - but you could say the same thing about most comics and indeed the great max cannon as well :
http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/
R.-
The whole point of Jesus and Mo is that it mocks the ridiculousness of religious ideas and pronouncements made by religious figures. It's hardly likely to start doing cartoons along the lines of "but what if it's true", after spending all that time showing the flaws in religious reasoning.
the whole point ?
Jon, how can the whole have a point ?
how can the whole have a point ?
It's quantum... something to do with strings
Bruce, why would not answering back convince you that jesus is god? (ignoring the reliability issues for now)
How can you even begin to claim to know what a hypothetical god would do anyway?
Nice to see the balanced and thoughtful manner of your post - no reference to jesus being the truth - that's open mindedness for you :-)
Doing anything nice for Saturnala/sol invictus/christmas/Mithras's birthday?
Rob - do you have a trinity of accounts?
Billy-
He has many separate accounts, but in a sense they are all one.
Yes, I believe he moves in a mysterious way when he wals too :-)
Billy
Something that has crossed my mind of late is that you could feel silly on judgement day, if you do not repent by then.
But there is always the hope that you will repent and believe the gospel and be spared having to feel silly.
Jimmy
Jimmy,
God doesn't exist! There is no judgement day - live your life without fear or the need to believe that you are foul, wretched and deserve eternal torment in unquenchable fire. This is my hope for you - believe me, slavery to esteem draining, life sappingchristianity is not life at all.
Hope you are well despite believing you are morally inferior to a deity who supposedly drowned the planet and plans to torture those with enough critical thinking abilities to realise that he does not exist.
You could almost be a preacher Billy!
I'm off to sister's in France tomorrow for a week.
Back in Scotland 30 Dec to 5 Jan - we can maybe catch up.
Bruce.gulland@hotmail.co.uk or Facebook till 5 Jan.
Bon noel - and I will keep an eye on blog.
Bruce - it's god's loss.
Have a joyeux noel en la france.
Bruce,
Have a nice time in france - drink a glass of port for me - I have exams so I am being even more abstemious than usual.
Lee can you get drunk and eat too much for me as well as yourself ? Billy is their an atheist version of Indulgences ?
Merry whatever-you-all-want-to-call-it.
R.
Rob, I thought by (christian)definition that atheists were hedonistic overindulgers.
Have a merry winter holiday
Have a merry winter holiday
Doesn't look like it will snow where I am sitting...
Have a great solstice wherever you are... :-)
Lee
Lee can you get drunk and eat too much for me as well as yourself ?
I will give it a go :-)
The eating bit is easy... the drinking, not as much as I once could - a mixture of getting old and having kids
Cheers Lee,
That leaves the drunkeness - Billy ? The least you atheists can do is commit a few vices for us believers. If we pray for you - can you drink for us ?
That leaves the drunkeness
Sod it... I do some drinking as well - time for some wine.
See ya
Lee
Yes, merry Christmas to you all. My apologies for the lack of Christmas cards. Especially to Australia Lee. Mind you, I couldn't even get a taxi out there so you probably weren't expecting much. Let us know what you think of Baz's new film with your adopted homeland as its title. Critics don't seem to have been too kind - the ones I've read.
Billy
In my opinion
Does God exist..Yes
Is the gospel true..Yes
Will we all stand before
the judgement seat of Christ..Yes
These truths do not depend upon your assent.
In any case as the vast majority of people believe in God it would be more fitting for you to prefix your statements with the proviso "In my opinion" because that is what your statements are "your opinion" and your opinion is not shared by the majority of people.
The existence of God is as real to me as the existence of people I've known all my life, so to me God does exist.
ps The fact that you'd feel silly if you met God is the sum total of my judgement upon you.
Jimmy
hi Bruce
Let us know what you think of Baz's new film with your adopted homeland as its title. Critics don't seem to have been too kind - the ones I've read.
Apart from the pretty landscape, I don't think there is anything in this movie that I will like... in fact, from what I heard, it is bloody awful. Not sure I want to invest 90 mins of my life to see it.
Bring by Crocodile Dundee... now that is a movie.
Lee
Jimmy,
Can you see the contradiction in the two statements you made here?
These truths do not depend upon your assent.
it would be more fitting for you to prefix your statements with the proviso "In my opinion"
Is it not then your opinion that god exists and not then fact - why did you not berate bruce for claiming jesus was the truth? Maybe you just dont like people holding an alternative view.
In any case as the vast majority of people believe in God
So what? Most of them dont believe in your god either. In fact if I remember correctly, you think muslims can get into heaven - therefore most christians dont believe in your god either - there are over 38000 different denoninations by the way, so I guess christians dont even agree on what god is. So your point is what?
It is also an argument from democracy fallacy - let me give you an example - most germans supported Hitler (mainly christians I hasten to add). Therefore Hitler was right.
How about 9 out of 10 people partaking in gang rape claim the experience was a positive one - therefore..... See the problem with your statement yet?
The existence of God is as real to me as the existence of people I've known all my life, so to me God does exist.
Therefore people who think they are Napolean are Napolean?
However, does god bring you a cup of tea? does he go to the cinema with you? When was the last time he cooked for you or watched football with you? When have you physically heard his voice or seen his face? Has he ever phoned you or cooked for you? This is what real people do. How does god compare? Not very well it appears.
ps The fact that you'd feel silly if you met God is the sum total of my judgement upon you.
Based on what. I would actually feel anger if I met the monster you call god.
well done on the post Bruce. really enjoyed it!
ryan.
Billy,
However, does god bring you a cup of tea? does he go to the cinema with you? When was the last time he cooked for you or watched football with you? When have you physically heard his voice or seen his face? Has he ever phoned you or cooked for you?
Funny, if Jimmy really thought/believed this wouldn’t they lock him up for being a crazy?
I mean, believing Jesus came back from the dead after 3 days seems OK to some.... but thinking Jesus physically makes you a cup of tea in the morning just isn’t accepted is it?
It is all about having the right kind of delusion to fit into society it seems.
Believe Napoleon is ‘with you’, ‘talking to you’, ‘guiding your day’... they would get you the special jumper with the long sleeves that ties at the back.
Say it was Jesus... no problems
Lee
Lee,
I just don't get it either - hear napolean and it's a room full of padded wall paper for you (I'm sure even christians would think this was strange). Believe someone rose from the dead, is invisible, talks to you, lives with in you and is in charge of your life and it is concidered fine and you pay them taxes
a room full of padded wall paper
he he - I'm stealing that one...
Lee
The Anna Glypta originals are much sought after and would be worth stealing.
She was a wonderfully creative woman with a real feeling for the symbiosis of walls and aspidistras.
Jimmy
the other ryan wasn't me! This is confusing.
I think psychiatry's definition of delusion that doesn't encompass religious belief is a good thing. Isn't there a world of difference between e.g. someone who believes the earth is flat because they come from a culture where everybody believed it and someone who spontaneously develops such a belief?
Christianity doesn't fit the definition of delusion you will find in (e.g) the DSM. You can argue that it should be changed (as homosexuality was removed from the list in 1972) but that's not the same thing as saying montotheism *is* a delusion and that psychologists/psychiatrists who fail to diagnose it are innacurate.
Incidently, it should be said that - theoretically - hearing voices, in and of itself, shouldn't necessarily be seen as indicative of psychosis but am not sure if actual psychiatric practise reflects this.
CB
I think some claims do fall in the mental category. If Jimmy did indeed think god makes him a cup of tea - or jack the ripper claiming god tod him to do it, I would call that mad.
Strangely though, I consider my period of christianity a mental illness - not a psychosis though, but along the same lines as depression
Billy
Have you read From Hell? Crap movie, but great graphic novel on the whole J t R thing. Obviously Sutcliffe claimed that God told him to kill prostitutes (and I'd imagine that was a factor in him being diagnosed as Paranoid Schizophrenic, although obviously lots of people think he's just faking)
In fairness, David McCarthy has no problem in conceding that excessive/odd spirtuality may be indicative of mental illness. If you liked Elim when you were a Christian then I have no problem believing that you were a nutter ;-).
Never went to Elim - they seemed mad even for me . Went to struthers though - that was not good
CF Isn't there a world of difference between e.g. someone who believes the earth is flat because they come from a culture where everybody believed it and someone who spontaneously develops such a belief?
Your analogy is wrong.
I wasn't talking about a person's 'poor science' but their beliefs on who is talking to them to do things.
According to some, religion doesn't tell you about the physical world (unless you are a fundie of course and your religion tells you have the physical world behaves.
Lee
I wasn't talking primarily about a person's science either, merely that psychiatry distinguishes between spontaneous delusions and beliefs that are explicable by reference to a person's culture, and that this is a good thing.
About a week ago I prayed that God would reveal more of himself to me.
After the prayer I had a very vivid thought I was standing in a forest talking to the man in charge of the forest.
What he said to me was this
"I cannot place this forest on your back you will not be able to bear it"
Then he handed me two logs and said "You are able to carry these and later I will give you more"
Then in this thought I walked back from the forest carrying the two logs.
So I did feel that in this thought God was speaking to me although there was no voices or vision.
Jimmy
Jimmy,
I have a friend who was training to be a Hindu priest who had dreams to - they dont come from god. I would suggest it is a message to yourslf from yourself - I get simmilar dreams on occasion - and I dont believe in god
Well, mine usually involve Britney and Cheryl Cole exploring their sexuality, so I think I have better dreams than both of you ;-)....
CB, I think you are not wrong there - beats dreaming you are a horse - hmm, well, come to think of it....
CB, I think you are not wrong there - beats dreaming you are a horse - hmm, well, come to think of it....
billy
saw a great tshirt the other day -
"Ketamine : just say neigh"
:-)
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